#indiewebcamp 2015-07-14

2015-07-14 UTC
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snarfed and done
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: thanks for the atom munging links from granary will help a lot with hfeed2atom :)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: welcome!
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aaronpk hahaha Loqi followed the http://indieweb.thatmustbe.us redirect
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Loqi who, me?
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kylewm aaronpk: that's weird right? and he didn't notice it for a couple hours, i wondered if he's seeing a bunch of different versions of that tweet and just showed us indiewebcat bc "indieweb"
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aaronpk oh hahaha
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aaronpk he uses both the twitter streaming API as well as the HTTP api for searches
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aaronpk so looks like at some point twitter indexed it as "indiewebcat" and then he found it
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aaronpk photos! http://aaron.pk/n4c93 http://aaron.pk/n4c92
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aaronpk whoa I just got the salmention from myself haha
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tantek hahaha these are hilarious
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tantek GWG is doing jazz hands too!
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tantek in http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/13/3/indiewebcamp
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tantek amazing
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aaronpk a few more here https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/sets/72157653510727754
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kylewm how did ti.to work out in retrospect?
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kylewm did the people that rsvped that way show up?
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aaronpk i still need to run one more stat
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aaronpk i need to check who showed up who *only* RSVPd through tito
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@webcoupdoeil #opensource Vigil@nce - WordPress Indieweb Post Kinds : Cross Site Scripting, analysé le 13/05/2015 http://vigilance.fr/vulnerabilite/WordPress-Indieweb-Post-Kinds-Cross-Site-Scripting-16908 (twitter.com/_/status/620753170210365440)
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aaronpk oh hey I think we had at least 6 people!
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tantek aaronpk - that’s definitely worth it then
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tantek wonder if it’s worth doing tito for HWC meetups
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aaronpk hmm, I don't think I'd do it for the PDX ones just yet
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GWG Tito?
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aaronpk ti.to
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GWG Oh
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tantek aaronpk, FYI, Flickr notification says: aaronparecki tagged you in a photo.
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tantek that’s the push notification I saw on my iPod lock screen
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aaronpk neat. do they have a notification if someone comments on that photo?
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tantek I don’t think so - I think FB came up with that
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KevinMarks_ hm, I can read tantek's whole posts in chrome tab hover text
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tantek is that a feature or a bug? ;)
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aaronpk question about the SWAT0 video, would you rather see a shorter edited version of the video, or an unedited video of the whole thing?
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tantek aaronpk - definitely shorter edited version that covers all the steps
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aaronpk cool
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kylewm is it like 3 minutes start to finish?
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KevinMarks_ http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/i-can-read-ts-whole-post-in-chrome-hover-text
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kylewm unedited?
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tantek perhaps even with the 1. *** 2. *** text over lay if you want to put the steps on it
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aaronpk it's like 7 minutes
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tantek shorter the better, even if you have to cut pauses in the middle etc.
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kylewm oh yeah
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kylewm the WebID videos are all like 10 minutes long
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kylewm and i never make it past 2
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KevinMarks_ post both? the 7 minute as live and the 3 minute edit
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tantek we can cite the full indiewebcamp demos video if needed
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@kevinmarks I can read @t's whole post in chrome hover text http://tantek.com/2015/193/t2/user-flow-permalinks-indieweb-swat0 ... https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/620755696452177920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620755696452177920)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+1) "/* Official Guest List */ moved some people to regrets" (view diff)
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aaronpk anybody feel confident enough in recognizing names from the photo to finish moving people to the regrets section?
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tantek guess it’s time to take another look at area-tagging
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tantek since ben_thatmustbeme successfully shot down the first proposal
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aaronpk oh he did?
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aaronpk I wasn't paying attention to that when it was happening
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KevinMarks_ remembers talking about area tagging with tantek, suw and greg about a decade ago
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tantek well I put it up, it was up for a while, he tried implementing it via micropub, found it didn’t work with micropub, explained why very clearly, and then I took out those parts in the mf2 parser spec
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KevinMarks_ lol at tantek's DRY violation
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tantek KevinMarks - <title>s meh
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KevinMarks_ wonder if you can just put h-entry on head and p-content on title
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GWG Hmm...I was the shortest one in the picture for once
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aaronpk hahaha
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KevinMarks_ or is keeping the markdown in the <title> an archiving trick?
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tantek those definitely belong on http://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Photos
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tantek KevinMarks it’s not markdown!
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tantek no - the titles are my weak attempt at lazily providing something for untitled notes
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KevinMarks_ oh right, it's autolink - you don't mung the 1. and * into <ol> and <ul>
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gitr someone drew "Self signed X.509 Certificates" out to 10 minutes of rambling WebID vid-link plz
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kylewm tantek: maybe it's just bad markdown
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tantek kylewm: maybe it’s just markdown that’s bad. :P
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KevinMarks_ markdown babel says it's too long
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: tantek: i didn't mean to
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: of course not, you were just doing the right thing
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tantek goes to Prasad to get a bowl of warm healthy goodness
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aaronpk yum
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KevinMarks_ markdown messes it up
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kylewm haha KevinMarks_ I did the same thing, pasted into a markdown parser to try and prove it *was* markdown
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking i might just want to work it out some way in micropub, embedded object
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kylewm but it looked bad and I couldn't make that claim
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ben_thatmustbeme sadly
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KevinMarks_ turns all the numbered paras into 1
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tantek is good at breaking things. Even Markdown. >:D
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KevinMarks_ unmung is also unappy
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aaronpk do we have an example of what an area tag looks like when parsed in an mf2 parser?
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ben_thatmustbeme this is going to be important (to e) for syndicated copies getting different text
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KevinMarks_ because I turn it into a url
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ben_thatmustbeme s/to/to me/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: this is going to me be important (to me e) for syndicated copies getting different text
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tantek aaronpk - I’d defined special parsing rules to handle using area shape and coords attributes
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KevinMarks_ do you have an area tag to feed into the parser
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i thought php-mf2 had area tag support still
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tantek aaronpk - so to be clear, I already went down that path
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tantek that’s the point
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ben_thatmustbeme unless it was removed
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tantek when ben_thatmustbeme proved it was unworkable via micropub, I ripped it out of the parsing spec
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aaronpk oh interesting
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KevinMarks_ https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/a0fc935bd4762303bc23f6eb506483d4f2b8ea76/tests/microformats-v2/h-card/p-property.html
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tantek basically, he showed it was not a useful addition to the parsing algorithm, and certainly not worth special-casing for
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i don't know about unworkable. technically geo:x,y is sort of an embedded object hack
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aaronpk there was no way to map it to form encoding?
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-card%22%3E%0D%0A++++%0D%0A++++%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-name%22%3E%0D%0A++++++++%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-given-name+value%22%3EJohn%3C%2Fspan%3E+%0D%0A++++++++%3Cabbr+class%3D%22p-additional-name%22+title%3D%22Peter%22%3EP%3C%2Fabbr%3E++%0D%0A++++++++%3Cspan+class%3D%22p-family-name+value+%22%3EDoe%3C%2Fspan%3E+%0D%0A++++%3C%2Fspan%3E%0D%0A++++%3Cdata+class%3D%22p-honorific-suffix%22+v
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: not without JS
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: we were basically embedding an object without actually doing so in the JSON
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aaronpk omg KevinMarks_ that is a crazy url
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ben_thatmustbeme the problem comes in when you start adding 2 people to tagging at once
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tantek aaronpk - there may still be a way to map it to form encoding - I’m trying to figure that out
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ben_thatmustbeme basically makes it so you cannot tag and post at the same time
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KevinMarks_ so mf2py parses area alt text
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kylewm unmung url cuts off after some number of characters for me
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KevinMarks_ same problem as iframe
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tantek KevinMarks: parsing area alt text is correct
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tantek no it has nothing to do with iframe
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aaronpk oh I see, it put the values next to "properties"
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KevinMarks_ oh right that si p sorry
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KevinMarks_ https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/0149607cb09139ffa1a798358b7d8897ce844c66/tests/microformats-v2/h-entry/u-property.html
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KevinMarks_ that test is not clear
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cbase+href%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttp%2Fexample.com%22%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%0D%0A++++%3Cp+class%3D%22p-name%22%3Emicroformats.org+at+7%3C%2Fp%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A++++%0D%0A++++%3Cp+class%3D%22u-url%22%3E%0D%0A++++++%3Cspan+class%3D%22value-title%22+title%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttp%2Fmicroformats.org%2F%22%3E+%3C%2Fspan%3E%0D%0A++++++Article+permalink%0D%0A++++%3C%2Fp%3E%0D%0A++++%3Cp+class%3D%22u-url%22
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tantek is too hungry to process the rest of this conversation and so is bowing out to go to Prasad.
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KevinMarks_ as it has the same url multiple ways
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cbase+href%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttp%2Fexample.com%22%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A++++%3Cimg+src%3D%22images%2Flogo.gif%22+alt%3D%22company+logos%22+usemap%3D%22%23logomap%22+%2F%3E%0D%0A++++%3Cmap+name%3D%22logomap%22%3E%0D%0A++++++++%3Carea+class%3D%22u-url%22+shape%3D%22rect%22+coords%3D%220%2C0%2C82%2C126%22+href%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttp%2Fmicroformats.org%2F%22+alt%3D%22microformats.or
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: still need to change the header on the wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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KevinMarks_ thinking we need a HWC logo http://svgur.com/s/1w
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KevinMarks_ or maybe http://svgur.com/s/o with text as vector
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KevinMarks_ thoughts?
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tantek maybe slightly more different than the IWC logo? ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme This ^^
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KevinMarks_ is not a designer
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GWG Trying to figure out how bad it would be to add WordPress authentication as a debug fallback for the Micropub plugin.
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks_: me neither, look at logo for indieid.com
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aaronpk GWG: i think that's fine
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KevinMarks_ this is the 'what if micropub with native auth' thoughts from earleir GWG
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KevinMarks_ eg silo.pub has a big config requirement to support indieauth for the silos
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+141) "/* Site Shutdowns 2014 */ cluster with subheads" (view diff)
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@gRegorLove @anomalily Here's some screenshots of my note posting UI you were asking about: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/notes#Posting_interface (twitter.com/_/status/620770592443138048)
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tantek !tell gRegorLove please add those to https://indiewebcamp.com/create#IndieWeb_Examples !
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Shiley
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 22 seconds ago: please add those to https://indiewebcamp.com/create#IndieWeb_Examples ! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-13/line/1436838344960
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gRegorLove *Shirley
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gregorlove.com edited /create (+209) "+me" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2015/Micropub_State_of_the_Union (-4) "/* IWC 2015 Portland Micropub State of the Union */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7753468?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067
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gregorlove.com edited /2015/Podcasting (+2232) "archived etherpad, headings, rearranged sections a bit" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Facebook let's you edit the previews of sites, and displays them the same way
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tantek wow that is so bad
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tantek so of course the next hack should be to post that article itself with an altered headline. not that I’d bother with actually making a native public FB post myself.
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gregorlove.com edited /2015/Podcasting (+119) "participants" (view diff)
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tantek “HuffPo: Facebook Altering Shared News Headlines To Influence Political Opinion”: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/13/facebook-update_n_7753468.html
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KevinMarks_ done
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KevinMarks_ https://www.facebook.com/kevinmarks/posts/10155844802045425
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Jeena Nice, I just refactured the code in my app which sends webmentions and tweets so that I can use it from different parts of the app and finally I can reply to and tweet via Micropub too
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Jeena that really took just half an hour which I didn't have yesterday before the demo.
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chreekat Jeena: nice
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ben_thatmustbeme Wow a lot of people have more than one u-url in their h-card.
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ben_thatmustbeme I guess I have to ignore the data in that part and just use the url I got them from
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KevinMarks Do they use u-uid?
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KevinMarks (I need to iterate on the hovercard thing too)
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tantek KevinMarks hilarious
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tantek “shared"
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tantek Jeena - that is great!
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@t Amazing weekend #IndieWebCamp with these independents http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/13/3/files/photo.jpg photo https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/13/3/indiewebcamp by @aaronpk (ttk.me t4c96) (twitter.com/_/status/620826179109568512)
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mm0hai.net edited /2015/Edinburgh (-17) "/* To-do */" (view diff)
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mm0hai.net edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+247) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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@kartik_prabhu @brucel Lot of people using microformats at @indiewebcamp to do replies/likes/reposts/feed-reading/notifications and all that! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/620877336871702528)
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed, kylewm: it seems bridgy is no longer finding my Notes feed for POSSE-post-discovery? https://www.brid.gy/twitter/kartik_prabhu# ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@paulrobertlloyd ‘At Indie Web Camp, Playing With Webmentions’ - https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/620897594588426240)
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@johnholtripley "Webmention is a modern update to Pingback, using only HTTP and x-www-urlencoded content rather than XMLRPC requests" http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/620897824453042176)
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@johannesdachsel I didn't have time for it @indiewebcamp but as of now, I finally switched https://johannesdachsel.com/ to HTTPS https://twitter.com/johannesdachsel/status/620904532265074688/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620904532265074688)
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cweiske.de edited /2015/Brighton (+38) "blog posts about brighton 2015" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /2015 (+133) "/* Blog */" (view diff)
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@ressourceinfo Vigil@nce – WordPress Indieweb Post Kinds : Cross Site Scripting http://ressource-info.net/securite/vigilnce-wordpress-indieweb-post-kinds-cross-site-scripting-112517/ (twitter.com/_/status/620919793252569090)
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tantek good early morning #indiewebcamp!
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petermolnar good morning, tantek
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seekr gm, all
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GWG Good morning, tantek, petermolnar, seekr.
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GWG I seem to be working on Micropub today.
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GWG Which is probably worrisome because I'm not sure I have internalized the spec.
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tantek GWG, join the club! :)
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GWG tantek: I also have to get past snarfed with any Pull Requests.
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GWG Both he and pfefferle have taught me a lot about minimalism.
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tantek !tell Jeena add yourself and your site to the list of people/sites whose server supports micropub for publishing! http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#IndieWeb_Examples
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek 150 people in the channel - have we hit that before?
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tantek is it worth marking up a reference to a talk with video & slides as an h-cite?
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tantek I suppose I could try it and see
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tantek but this raises a question about dates. should the dt-published of the h-cite of the video be when the talk was given, or when the video was actually published?
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tantek I’m thinking when the video was published would be a more accurate *citation* of the *video*. Yet what’s more interesting to the user is *when* the talk was given, which is shown in the display text already. Is it worth marking that up as “dt-created”?
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tantek I know aaronpk has other dt-created use-cases
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tantek hmm - I think I may punt on marking these videos/slides up as h-cite for now until we discuss this some more
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Zegnat What if I listen to the talk live, and want to quote the speaker as well as link to a video that was made available? I think I would quote with the date of the talk, the content of the talk existed before the video went up.
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tantek Zegnat agreed. what URL would you use for the content of the talk in that case?
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Zegnat I also believe my guidebook on writing academic papers says to cite with the date of the talk, not of publication of transcript, but don’t quote me on that
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tantek Zegnat - ooh that’s useful to know. If you can find a citation for that it would be appreciated!
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Zegnat I’ll give it a shot, but so many publications have different rules that I might not be able to dig up this specific edge case
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tantek Any research into this would help shed some light.
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Zegnat rhiaro might have something at hand, closer to academia than I am currently, I think. (ping)
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+33) "/* Talks */ link Willow" (view diff)
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tantek so much easier to use my own auto_link() function to generate YouTube embeds from URLs than to have to bother to load YouTube
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csarven tantek Solve this: "this h-cite is about an h-event" and you'll have a timestamp for the citation well as for the actual filming/occurrence of the event.
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tantek csarven - I’d like to see existing visible text examples of citations of events.
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tantek that’s what I’d use as input to solve that
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Zegnat Hmm, APA style doesn’t allow you to quote speeches apparently, only “an authoritative source for the text”. So they simply tell you to cite the webpage / transcript / whatever in accordance with the publication manual - http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2009/10/how-to-cite-a-speech-in-apa-style.html
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csarven tantek Perhaps more like: "this is a citation of x", "x is part of event y". -- replace "part of" with whatever is appropriate -- is there such mf2 property?
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tantek csarven - I’d have to see a real world example of that to really understand it.
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+1144) "add contributors and license boilerplate similar to /Micropub, start making this page more spec like" (view diff)
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anm I was wondering about dates as well. On my blog, I put a date on travel posts of around the time the events happened, so this is neither the published or written date. Something like dt-about maybe - the date of events that the post is about.
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+34) "credit Sandeep for concept and v0.1 right at the top" (view diff)
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anm does something for that exist already? I used dt-published for now.
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rhiaro anm: dt-start and dt-end for events. I use that for travel posts too, at rhiaro.co.uk/travel
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rhiaro and dt-published for when I actually published the post
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petermolnar someone asked my reasons for being fed up with social networks, here's one: first 'page' of facebook wall, 5(!) times the picture of Pluto
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@FEEZig Ein Blog-Umzug: Willkommen auf meiner neuen Domain, ihr Internetmenschen! #blog #indieweb #tagebuch http://blog.feez.xyz/2015/07/14/ein-blog-umzug/ (twitter.com/_/status/620971629049352192)
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@paulrobertlloyd ★ ‘At Indie Web Camp, Playing With Webmentions’ - https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/620973074037534720)
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anm rhiaro: Thanks. Do you know what uses these dates? Otherwise is a bit hard to decide how to use them - it is just academic. The simplest thing to do is leave it as is, which I probably would unless there is likely to be a real benefit from complicating things. :p
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anm btw, I am mm0hai.net
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anm I suppose you could display your blog posts on a calendar.
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rhiaro anm: I just noticed you were on tardis and was about to ask
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rhiaro Yeah, a proper calendar view over my events and travel plans is on the card. Which could potentially become a reader that consumes event-type posts
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rhiaro s/card/cards
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: Yeah, a proper calendar view over my events and travel plans is on the cards. Which could potentially become a reader that consumes event-type posts
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rhiaro cards being my todo list
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aaronpk good morning! /me reads logs
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snarfed1 !tell KartikPrabhu sorry for the trouble! it's because bridgy only crawls your first rel=feed, not all of them
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed !tell KartikPrabhu we should probably crawl all of them though. i'll file an issue
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 6 hours, 19 minutes ago: it seems bridgy is no longer finding my Notes feed for POSSE-post-discovery? https://www.brid.gy/twitter/kartik_prabhu# ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14/line/1436864687124
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk ooh what's this about rel=feed?
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snarfed :P
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snarfed bridgy crawls them to do original/posse post discovery
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#link
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aaronpk do you have examples of people who have published links?
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snarfed filed: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/423
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snarfed aaronpk: KartikPrabhu for one
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snarfed i think gRegor-phone and kylewm maybe
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aaronpk jeena and I were talking about something related to this at IWC this weekend
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aaronpk oh cool kartik does the same thing we were taling about
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aaronpk not wanting all content on the home page, and linking to multiple feeds from there instead
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snarfed totally!
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snarfed i do it too but without markup
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Jeena yeah that is what I want to do too
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aaronpk yeah, there's no reason to add markup until there is
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 29 minutes ago: add yourself and your site to the list of people/sites whose server supports micropub for publishing! http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#IndieWeb_Examples http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14/line/1436878880361
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snarfed heh
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aaronpk and now there are two reasons!
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snarfed (e.g. linking to https://snarfed.org/archive)
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snarfed yes!
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aaronpk 1) bridgy finding the feeds, 2) a reader finding the feeds
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snarfed oh reader, interesting
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snarfed i wonder if that's a real use case though
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aaronpk if you want to subscribe to someone's content
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aaronpk s/someone/all of someone/
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: if you want to subscribe to all of someone's content
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snarfed i'm not sure of that UX. if i subscribe to someone's front page, i wouldn't also want their likes (etc) just because there's a rel-feed
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aaronpk not automatically no
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snarfed if i want everything, i'd want to say so explicitly
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snarfed oh so it'd be a per subscription option in the reader?
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aaronpk this is how i imagine it working: http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/feed-discovery-20150714-083229.png
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snarfed thx
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aaronpk where it would also include the other rel=feed on his home page
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aaronpk and i could click one or more of them to actually subscribe
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snarfed ah so they'd be togglable and you'd include one or more in the subscription?
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snarfed or individually?
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aaronpk in monocle that's what happens when you type someone's domain in
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aaronpk you'd click one or more feeds you want to subscribe to
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snarfed ok, so togglable
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snarfed either way works
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snarfed cool!
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aaronpk well in monocle the buttons go away after you subscribe, but they'd show up as separate subscriptions in the settings
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jeena.net edited /Micropub (+183) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added Jeena" (view diff)
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aaronpk !tell tantek re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14#t1436881606366 there is typically a separate date for videos called "recording date" or something similar, since dt-created would actually represent the date the video was edited
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk TIL you can disable autoplay on youtube to stop it from playing the next "suggested" video automatically
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Jeena what does bridgy do with feeds?
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aaronpk that's how it matches up silo posts with the original if the silo post doesn't include a link back
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Jeena oh that is a interesting use case too
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@kevinmarks @brucel we're using microformats to enable rich interactions with webmentions. See http://tantek.com/2015/193/t2/user-flow-permalinks-indieweb-swat0 for a particular example (twitter.com/_/status/620981149834219521)
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aaronpk many of us don't include a permalink on twitter for example
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Jeena and it does it by comparrison of the content string?
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aaronpk no, looks for the syndication URL in the original
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Jeena ah I see
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kylewm snarfed: for what it's worth, I've tried to subscribe to your notes/replies/likes/etc before, and I don't think it's possible
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Loqi kylewm: KartikPrabhu left you a message 6 hours, 47 minutes ago: it seems bridgy is no longer finding my Notes feed for POSSE-post-discovery? https://www.brid.gy/twitter/kartik_prabhu# ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14/line/1436864687124
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tantek good morning again!
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 19 minutes ago: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14#t1436881606366 there is typically a separate date for videos called "recording date" or something similar, since dt-created would actually represent the date the video was edited http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14/line/1436888173095
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Loqi slack/snarfed: kylewm: true! at least not replies or likes. sorry about that :P
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cweiske aaronpk, now that KartikPrabhu made his hfeed2atom proxy, will you add an atom link to your site?
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aaronpk hmm yes i think i can do that!
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aaronpk what should i put as my atom feed, my notes?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: aaronpk: you can have multiple atom feeds
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Loqi slack/snarfed: is hfeed2atom up as a proxy service? i think it might be just a lib so far
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@StuRobson @paulrobertlloyd looking at your site. I can safely say I haven’t received your webmentions post. (twitter.com/_/status/621000487744184320)
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aaronparecki.com edited /collection (+37) "/* Different from a feed */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /collection (+148) "/* Changes */" (view diff)
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aaronpk rhiaro: now that is captured http://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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@aegirthor @paulrobertlloyd I do, and it was the webmentions one, but I saw the lanyards one again which I’m sure I’d read a while back. (twitter.com/_/status/621005217992155136)
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aaronpk kylewm: what's up with the "name" property on your posts? https://kylewm.com/2015/07/now-i-think-she-s-posing-for-the-gram-on-purpose
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aaronpk it ended up looking weird on my "like" of it https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/07/12/2/
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KevinMarks_ hm, is this inherited name again?
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aaronpk not sure
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aaronpk might just be ugly imageproxy url
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aaronpk oh the URL just shouldn't be inside the name/content
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttps%2Fkylewm.com%2F2015%2F07%2Fnow-i-think-she-s-posing-for-the-gram-on-purpose&html=&pretty=on
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aaronpk well that's different
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KevinMarks_ content: value -> name I think
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KevinMarks_ so we need to fix the PHP parser to do that too?
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KevinMarks_ no, he marks it up explicitly
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KevinMarks_ <div class="e-content p-name"> <p>Now I think she’s posing for the ‘gram on purpose <a href="/https/chat.indieweb.org/tags/joonafish">#joonafish</a></p> <div class="photo"> <a class="u-photo" href="https://kylewm.com/2015/07/now-i-think-she-s-posing-for-the-gram-on-purpose/files/photo.jpg"> <img src="/https/chat.indieweb.org/imageproxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttps%2Fkylewm.com%2F2015%2F07%2Fnow-i-think-she-s-posing-for-the-gram-on-purpo
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KevinMarks_ so parser bug?
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KevinMarks_ reading src as text?
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kylewm not a parser bug, that's what the spec says to do
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kylewm " else return the textContent of the element, replacing any nested <img> elements with their alt attribute if present, or otherwise their src attribute if present, resolving any relative URLs, and removing all leading/trailing whitespace. "
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KevinMarks_ yikes, really?
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KevinMarks_ so you should be putting an empty alt?
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kylewm i guess i can do that
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aaronpk is that a good idea tho?
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kylewm looks like a bug in mf2py actually that it's not doing that
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KevinMarks_ what is the motivation for img src in text?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "motivation for img src in text" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=motivation+for+img+src+in+text&summary=prompted+by+KevinMarks_+https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttps%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-14%2Fline%2F1436895406983
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tantek.com edited /comments-presentation (+138) "/* How to markup */ u-comment h-cite is needed rather than p-comment h-cite to set the comment property flat value to the URL of the comment" (view diff)
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kylewm I have used the pattern <data class="u-photo" value="un-proxied image"><img src="proxied img"/></data>, but that wouldn't help in this case
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tantek yes that's deliberate
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tantek re: alt vs src
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tantek you're supposed to put text equivalents for the img into the alt
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tantek if you don't we fall back to passing along the src
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KevinMarks_ so it's an accessibility back pressure
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kylewm maybe I will be able to generate alt text with http://cs.stanford.edu/people/karpathy/deepimagesent/ soon
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KevinMarks_ well, in that case the "alt" text is less necessary as the post describes the image
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aaronpk is it possible tojust move the img tag outside of the post?
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aaronpk s/post/content
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: is it possible tojust move the img tag outside of the content?
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aaronpk reviews his own markup and discovers he uses empty alt tags
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kylewm would it be better like this? <div class="e-content"><span class="p-name">caption</span><img src="..."/></div>
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kylewm might break generated implicit p-name detection
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aaronpk that actually might be worse, because then the name and content will be different and it'll look like a blog post
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kylewm jinx
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KevinMarks_ the img in the post is right though - you want the u-photo ?
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/indiecard?url=https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttps%2Fkylewm.com%2F2015%2F07%2Fnow-i-think-she-s-posing-for-the-gram-on-purpose
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csarven Congrats on SWAT0!
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csarven SWAT0++
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Loqi SWAT0 has 2 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme wants to be able to use part B next, I think it shouldn't be too difficult
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ben_thatmustbeme all functionality i want to add
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@kevinmarks Summary video of SWAT0: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/14/1/swat0 details: http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0 (twitter.com/_/status/621016968112398337)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks commented 'Summary video of SWAT0: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/14/1/swat0 details: http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0 (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/summary-video-of-swat0-notes201507141swat0-details-swat0)
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KevinMarks_ hm, not seeing aaron's post in his feed
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aaronpk oops one sec
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aaronpk try now
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KevinMarks_ bad img link
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aaronpk ooh i need a thumbnail
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Loqi [bridgy] Pius favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0 (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/621016968112398337)
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: thanks, added a thumbnail!
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ben_thatmustbeme hey, aaronpk, did you change indieauth to require the client_id be a url now?
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aaronpk it's been like that for a long time
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aaronpk do you mean indieauth the protocol or indieauth.com the service?
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ben_thatmustbeme never noticed. people can't log in to mobilepub now
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ben_thatmustbeme gah
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/dissolve/mobilepub/issues/3
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Authorization_Endpoint
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cweiske it was always meant to be a full URI
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cweiske client_id
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cweiske Full URI of the application's/website's home page. Used to identify the application. An authorization endpoint may show the application's icon and title to the user during the auth process.
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aaronpk it was always meant to be a full URI, indieauth.com didn't enforce it at the beginning tho
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kylewm man that SWAT0 video is awesome. I need to fix my repost contexts before I can do it justice in a repost
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aaronpk got it down to 94 seconds too :)
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ben_thatmustbeme mobilepub doesn't really have a specific URL per se
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aaronpk should I host the 21mb video on my server or redirect to archive.org?
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ben_thatmustbeme i guess i'll use the wiki page. seems rather hacky though
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: does the app have a home page?
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: no
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aaronpk can't find the link, but somewhere it describes what to do
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aaronpk basically make a home page and use that as the client_id
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aaronpk can be just informational
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aaronpk the wiki page is fine unless you want to own the URL
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aaronpk this is based on the behavior of most existing mobile apps, they usually have a single-page site with the app description and download link
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ben_thatmustbeme goes looking to buy another url
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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cweiske aaronpk, https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Redirect_URI_verification
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cweiske if one implements redirect_uri verification, the wiki page is not enough
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, how do the redirect URIs look like?
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aaronpk oh right cause the wiki has its own h-x-app tag
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aaronpk so the page can't add properties to it
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ben_thatmustbeme frowns at this requirement set
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cweiske as far as I know does nobody implement redirect_uri verification
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cweiske my indieauth-openid proxy doesn't do it, indieauth.com doesn't do it
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aaronpk i believe that is correct, alhtough we're all gonna have to very soon
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aaronpk it's a pretty bad/obvious attack vector
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aaronpk and not that hard to enforce
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aaronpk lunch time bbiab
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske: redirect_uri is to localhost
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ben_thatmustbeme that has to be supported for offline apps
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather, non-web apps
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ben_thatmustbeme i believe someone was writings a CLI micropub client
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cweiske how does mobilepub work? the readme isn't that elaborate
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ben_thatmustbeme well considering it was written as a proof of concept and its 1 html file and 2 JS files, it hasn't been that high on my agenda
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cweiske so you need a local webserver?
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cweiske what about non-http links?
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cweiske like web+mobilepub://foo as redirect uri?
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cweiske your website could register itself as handler for that
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske: not a website
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ben_thatmustbeme plus then you have a REALLY hacky system of redirect to a non-http url and then assume they have registered in the browser that tries to load that (which may not be the case)
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kylewm aaronpk's pushups app redirects to a local non-http url, i can't remember what it is iphone:// or something
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kylewm for CLI, it would be nice to support oob tokens, so you don't have to run a localhost webserver...
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aaronpk Yeah redirect uri doesn't have to be http
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: the redirect_uri is still http? or the redirect_uri is iphone://
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aaronpk On iOS the app can register a custom protocol, I used push-ups:// or something
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aaronpk Full uri would be pushups://auth
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ben_thatmustbeme is thinking of CLI app, I believe they said they have to spawn a webserver and then redirect to localhost:port
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cweiske but redirect_uri verification can still be done, even for non-http protocol urls
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cweiske as long as the client_id website registers the url
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cweiske hm nice
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aaronpk Right
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aaronpk Basically just go search OAuth 2 docs on this stuff, I'm not making it up from nothing
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ben_thatmustbeme well h-x-app is not required correct?
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aaronpk The part I made up is *how* to register the URI, since OAuth 2 doesn't say how
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aaronpk For that, h-x-app is required
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aaronpk If you can think of a better way I'm open to suggestions
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ben_thatmustbeme ugh... you require a logo now?
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@paulrobertlloyd @fstorr @treevis Try refreshing the feed now, and see if that fixes it; latest entry should be about Webmentions. Ta! (twitter.com/_/status/621027830411984896)
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aaronpk It's optional
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, the issue is this. it dosn't validate anything
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ben_thatmustbeme anyone can fork mobilepub and just use any URL i set up
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kylewm tiny datapoint: I must say, the silos that don't require redirect_uri registration are much easier to develop locally for (i.e. so you don't have to create two app ids). although allowing to register multiple urls makes it much (maybe 100%) better
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aaronpk Welcome to the OAuth 2 native app debates
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aaronpk Being able to register multiple is important for that reason. GitHub only lets you add one and it's annoying. Google lets you add multiple
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ben_thatmustbeme still does not see how this provides any security at all
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aaronpk You're not entirely wrong, but I'm not going to debate it because it's been debated a ton on the OAuth list
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, so can people not log in to ben.thatmustbe.me/new now either?
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ben_thatmustbeme it does not have h-x-app
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aaronpk I think you're confused
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aaronpk IndieAuth.com requires a client id that is a URL
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ben_thatmustbeme yes
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aaronpk *if* there is a h-x-app there, it shows the app name and logo
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aaronpk In the future, it will require redirect URI registration using the h-x-app as well
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aaronpk Does that clear it up?
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tantek rhiaro, challenge for you and benwerd for IWC Edinburgh - get your site/software up to SWAT0 functionality, whichever of the player roles is easiest for you to achieve (A,B,C) https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, "in the future" was the part i was missing
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ben_thatmustbeme still frowns on this all
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aaronpk Take it up with the OAuth mailing list :-P
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martymcgui.re created /User:Martymcgui.re (+164) "create my user page!" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme this is an issue of IndieAuth Protocol, which is not OAuth though, implementation detail really
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aaronpk What part is bothering you?
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ben_thatmustbeme anything that isn't useful get trimmed
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aaronpk Define useful
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ben_thatmustbeme with facebook etc, they can make requirements that only one app redirect to any URL
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ben_thatmustbeme which is where security comes in
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tantek aaronpk and I were chatting about what would it take to make OwnYourGram a candidate client for player A in SWAT0
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kylewm huh, no it's the other way around. an app can redirect to only a pre-defined set of Urls
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tantek it would need to recognize person-tags from Instagram, and pass those along via micropub
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tantek which requires figuring out a mapping from Instagram @-usernames to personal site URLs
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tantek possibly with rel=me
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kylewm so that I can't craft a URL that will tell you to authorize Facebook for Klout and then send the credentials to kylewm.com
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: fwiw I ran all this by people from the OAuth group and they agreed it made sense
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tantek !tell benwerd what do you think about adding person-tagging support to photo posts in Known? I think that plus supporting salmentions would upgrade Known to be able to play player A's role in https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme needs time to sketch all this out
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ben_thatmustbeme will hopefullly lead to a post
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GWG snarfed1: Does the 1 indicate you are having issues right now
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snarfed GWG: personal issues mostly
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Loqi [bridgy] TomWithTheWeather favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0 (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/621016968112398337)
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snarfed GWG: kidding. :P got me. just disconnects and reconnects i assume. feel free to hide join/part messages if it bothers you!
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to sketch it all out, but i'm pretty sure that for the entire model, this type of registration is not at all useful. since any app can spoof any app. there are no secret keys to register with indieauth.com
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aaronpk There are no secret keys which is exactly why redirect uri validation is necessary
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GWG snarfed: No, I wanted to talk to you, but I thought it might be a false presence
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aaronpk That is well documented in OAuth 2, I believe in the "security considerations" document
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ben_thatmustbeme WOAH, that just confused the hell out of me... line moved mid sentence and my brain just FREAKED out
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GWG snarfed: I am looking at the Micropub plugin again.
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snarfed GWG: great!
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@benwerd "The web that I spent years in an Iranian jail for”Š ”Šis dying. Why is nobody stopping it?" https://medium.com/matter/the-web-we-have-to-save-2eb1fe15a426 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/621033733211041792)
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GWG snarfed: How do I decide if something I want to add is beyond plugin scope?
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@treevis @paulrobertlloyd Reeder picked up the new entries. See the webmentions one. (twitter.com/_/status/621033852648067073)
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snarfed GWG: sounds a bit like overthinking? if it's micropub related, it's probably in scope
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+630) "IndieWeb Examples - note who achieved, when, with documentation, and video" (view diff)
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snarfed if you're not sure, feel free to ask!
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Jeena With mocroformats or micropub, how would I make a distinction between a photo which I take of something and a screenshot?
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aaronpk What's the purpose of making the distinction?
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snarfed mochaformats!
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Jeena because I'd like to have jeena.net/screenshots and jeena.net/photos
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Jeena I use screenshots to show something on my screen to people
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Jeena I use photos to show them something in the real world
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aaronpk Interesting! I also share a lot of screenshots
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GWG snarfed: For example, Teacup uses p3k-food,which is a nonstandard property. Should the store function store it, or should the props array get a filter to add unofficial properties?
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aaronpk Some of them I put on Instagram but most of them I don't
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Jeena so you're also making a distinction between them
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snarfed GWG: hmm, i don't know. maybe propose something?
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aaronpk I think the distinction I make is actually just which feed I put them in
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tantek Jeena: screenshots:PNG ; photos:JPG. done ;)
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GWG snarfed: I prefer the filter.
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snarfed GWG: so, people would need extra plugins for nonstandard properties?
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aaronpk The fact that I share screenshots on Instagram along with my photos means I actually don't want an automatic filtering
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Jeena What I want to have an app whith which I can post photos on my website and another one (or the same) with which I can share screenshots
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GWG snarfed: That is what I am thinking
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aaronpk GWG: snarfed: I'd actually suggest storing all the Micropub properties as post properties so that themes can use them
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tantek Jeena, aaronpk, do you have permalinks to posts of screenshots on your site(s)?
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aaronpk Easier than making a plugin
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GWG aaronpk: We are. But the p3k ones arr not standard.
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snarfed GWG: eh, i'm not a big fan of plugin proliferation. i like the idea of storing all provided properties better
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rhiaro Tantek: totally. I want salmentions this week, and will display person tags as part of wm display in working on at the moment
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rhiaro Looking into push notifications too
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GWG I am in favor of adding more commonly used ones.
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aaronpk GWG: you don't need to hard code the list of properties to look for
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snarfed why not store everything!
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snarfed aaronpk: exactly
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tantek rhiaro: that plus if we get OwnYourGram to support passing along person-tags, then you could use OwnYourGram + your site to be player A!
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aaronpk If you look at the Micropub spec it says all properties of the payload are considered properties of the post
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GWG snarfed: The entire POST submission?
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snarfed sure!
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aaronpk Yep
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rhiaro I don't have an Instagram account
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tantek lol
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aaronpk My newest Micropub endpoint does that
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tantek but how do you post photos then? ;)
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GWG See, talking it out changed my mind.
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Jeena tantek, I am able to do a workaround but I'm just curious if there is a defined way to do it
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rhiaro I ftp them to my server from my phone and embed the link :p
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tantek rhiaro: that's kind of even better. you could create a PRIVATE Instagram account purely to use as a client to post to your own site.
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snarfed silos as plumbing!!!
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rhiaro Hah
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tantek proving the point that Instagram *ONLY AS CLIENT* is valid
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snarfed silosasplumbing++
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Loqi silosasplumbing has 1 karma
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Jeena and I don't have one yet but a friend of mine has, see https://tobiastom.name/screenshots vs. https://tobiastom.name/screenshots
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GWG snarfed: All known properties are stored with the mf2 prefix. Where do I store known ones?
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GWG unknown ones?
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snarfed GWG: not sure!
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snarfed sorry, the micropub plugin isn't swapped into my head, and i don't quite have the time right now to jump into it
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snarfed but feel free to propose something and i'll look soon!
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tantek.com edited /OwnYourGram (+442) "wishlist, person tagging, see also" (view diff)
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GWG snarfed: I will try building something.
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snarfed GWG: out of curiosity, what the use case are you building?
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rhiaro Tantek: I think I could most likely get to B first
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GWG snarfed: Making it usable by me
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GWG I have only used it in one test
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snarfed that's not really a use case :P
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snarfed what concrete thing are you hoping to do with it?
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GWG Have it work with my Post Kinds plugin
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snarfed ah, ok, thx
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GWG snarfed: But I found other things related
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snarfed hey GWG, unrelated: does your userrname stand for something?
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kylewm knows
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snarfed lol
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GWG snarfed: Yes, from one of the websites that I run
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snarfed gwg life insurance?
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snarfed lol at https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Agwg
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snarfed "GWG is a three letter acronym that can stand for: Girls with guns. Girls with glasses. Game-winning goal (sports term) Global warming gases (greenhouse gases)"
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snarfed probably none of those
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GWG It may be off topic
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snarfed refuses to join indiechat
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ben_thatmustbeme actually i don't see anywhere in the spec of OAuth2 that client_id MUST be a URL, thats entirely indieauth domain
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GWG I used to write my tech stuff on gadgetwisdom.com. I still do sometimes
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aaronpk Sorry I thought that was clear
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aaronpk Would it be helpful if I wrote up how IndieAuth buildS on OAuth 2 and why?
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ben_thatmustbeme got that impression from cweiske's comment on https://github.com/dissolve/mobilepub/issues/3
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ben_thatmustbeme not that i'm saying its a bad idea as that is how you are doing registration
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aaronpk Well he's citing the IndieAuth spec
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ben_thatmustbeme well, he's paraphrasing, it doesn't use "MUST" at all
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snarfed GWG: aha, gadget wisdom guru, got it
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kylewm it used to say GadgetWisdomGuru when you do /whois GWG, that's the only reason I knew
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ben_thatmustbeme but this all of this just reaffirms why i wrote IndieID indieauth.com was the only implementation (that i know of) or indieauth protocol
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GWG snarfed: If you have time and are bored, my article on dual flush toilets still gets traffic
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kylewm although I thought itw as GadgetWizardGuru and was having a hell of a time confirming it
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aaronpk Yes more implementations is good!
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ben_thatmustbeme a change like "MUST" but url suddenly breaks apps
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ben_thatmustbeme s/but/be/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: a change like "MUST" be url suddenly breaks apps
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martymcgui.re edited /User:Martymcgui.re (+612) "add some initial working/itches" (view diff)
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snarfed omg toilets
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ben_thatmustbeme the h-x-app bit being required would probably break a lot
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ben_thatmustbeme as that is pretty recently added
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ben_thatmustbeme as i remember
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aaronpk Client id was always supposed to be a URL
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ben_thatmustbeme supposed to be and required to be are very different
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aaronpk Guess I should update the page to say MUST even though there is no other way you could interpret the current text
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aaronpk "Full URI of the application's/website's home page."
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think its really required
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ben_thatmustbeme to state that
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ben_thatmustbeme i would say if you want to register redirect_urls you would just need some u-redirect-url value in h-x-app
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ben_thatmustbeme allows multiple redirects
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aaronpk I want to get to the point that redirect Uris are required
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aaronpk Redirect URI verification*
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ben_thatmustbeme thats how i would say it
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aaronpk I don't want to say "if you want to..."
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ben_thatmustbeme h-x-app > u-redirect-uri or something like that
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ben_thatmustbeme no, i don't mean "if you want to " to others
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ben_thatmustbeme that was to you
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aaronpk Oh ok
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ben_thatmustbeme if you want to start constructing a system for that, that would be my suggestion
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aaronpk btw ben_thatmustbeme and cweiske did you see the changes I made to the IndieAuth category page?
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:IndieAuth
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cweiske no
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk++ nice
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Loqi aaronpk has 883 karma
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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snarfed afternoon tantek!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: oh I see what happened! I did not have rel=feed on my Articles before, so I put it and bridgy then frogot to check Notes :P
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: snarfed1 left you a message 4 hours, 41 minutes ago: sorry for the trouble! it's because bridgy only crawls your first rel=feed, not all of them http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14/line/1436887460416
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: snarfed left you a message 4 hours, 40 minutes ago: we should probably crawl all of them though. i'll file an issue http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-14/line/1436887479214
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tantek snarfed - I cannot tell you how much excitement there is going on about achieving SWAT0
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snarfed i know! me too!
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tantek We did, just barely before its 5 year anniversary.
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tantek s/We did/We did it
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Loqi tantek meant to say: We did it, just barely before its 5 year anniversary.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I did put rel=feed inthe hope that readers will use it for a toggle UI :)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: what do you have left to support being Player B?
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tantek kylewm: do you think it would be easier for you to be Player A or B next?
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aaronpk Ooh what's the date of the 5th anniversary?
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aaronpk Might be a good target for me to support all roles
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kylewm tantek: good question! K-way SWAT0 is a good next goal
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tantek K-way?
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aaronpk SWAT0 the Kyle way?
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kylewm I thought that was an expression, apparently not :/ like a Complete graph Kn
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kylewm where all three people can play all three parts
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aaronpk So mathy
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tantek kylewm: before that, there's the further challenge of who will be able to play Players A, B, or C using their site?
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tantek where one person can play all three parts, allowing the two other people to pick which parts they want to play first.
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aaronpk Do we need to add an IndieWeb examples section for each role?
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tantek aaronpk - we'll cross that bridge when we have the examples :)
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aaronpk Well there's already at least 3!
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aaronpk One more example to add a section for it?
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tantek there is?
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aaronpk Well we have one example for each role right now
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tantek yes I added them in implicit order
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tantek I'll make it more explicit
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aaronpk Ah I was talking about role-specific lists
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+104) "move fixed to background, IndieWeb Examples up a heading level Clarify player A,B,C (avoiding using table)" (view diff)
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kylewm I'd need to support person tagging and receiving salmentions for domain level mentions i think
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kylewm (and receiving domain-level mentions, for that matter)
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tantek aaronpk - I don't think that's a good idea, because "passing SWAT0" requires actually showing interop across the whole thing, and thus we should keep the indiewebexamples for doing so as triples (lol ;) )
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tantek aaronpk, tell you want, as soon as someone is playing more than one role, across multiple triples, then I'll start a section for multiple roles
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: correction re: Web Notifications in Firefox. It's coming imminently in Firefox 42 (the next Developer Edition)
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gitr oh god,, more invasive notification-shit?
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gitr glad i permanently switched to dillo/w3m in 2005 and havent looked back
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tantek gitr - pretty sure you have to ok it for any site that asks
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tantek I think it's available in Chrome now if you want to try it out
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tantek presumably if you send notifications from your personal site, you mean to do so and it's not "invasive" ;)
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csarven aaronpk I think this is for you: re: https://indieauth.com/developers 's/me: The "me" parameter is the URL that the user enters/indie_auth_url: The "indie_auth_url" parameter is the URL that the user enters/'
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kylewm csarven: "me" is the correct parameter
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell tantek for person B support, Person-tag is written but completely untested and i need to set up receiving salmentions, but then i have to rewrite all of my notifications and mention processing stuff sometime soon
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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csarven kylewm Then I take it that the example form should reflect that.
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell tantek Cool, can't wait to get Web Notifications cross browser
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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csarven Oops
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csarven name="me". DOH!
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csarven Overlooked that =)
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csarven I tend to use the same term for @id @name @for -- easy to copy/paste/search/replace
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martymcgui.re edited /User:Martymcgui.re (+12) (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ very pro indieweb articel, ironically on medium https://medium.com/matter/the-web-we-have-to-save-2eb1fe15a426
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gitr boycotting personal-websites until DNS isnt a cartel and the cult of persona-branding goes away, if ever
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KartikPrabhu gitr: persona-branding ?
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sparverius personal branding
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sparverius some people dont like it because reasons
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KartikPrabhu what's that?
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sparverius Personal branding is the practice of people marketing themselves and their careers as brands.
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KartikPrabhu sparverius: oh <shrug>
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sparverius ive never heard a compelling reason as to why it's bad although i dont really participate in the whole process myself.
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KartikPrabhu I don't know. I want to have my own design on my site and not have it look like every other site
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gRegorLove Sounds like someone's boycotting the entire internet
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sparverius yeah, personal branding is a whole process that's more than just self hosting - i dont really think any potential criticism of personal branding really intersects with self hosting/de-siloing
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KartikPrabhu sparverius: self-hosting is fine, but if the goal is to have all websites look and behave the same then I don't think that is good
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sparverius yeah absolutely
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sparverius i didnt mean to imply anything about enforcing style/functionality on the web or anything
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KartikPrabhu sparverius: yes I gotcha
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KartikPrabhu shrugs and goes back to science-ing
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gRegorLove Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_branding#Criticisms
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KartikPrabhu oh its some marketing nonsense.
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gRegorLove The phrase "personal branding" has certainly been used a lot in recent years, to the point of being a silly buzzword. There's some legit stuff to it, but I think a lot of people take it too far, too.
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sparverius the criticisms of it highlight issues with participating in it, not any actual critisms of the practice itself in society blah blah blah i have work to do
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gRegorLove Like, just have fun... don't *always be marketing* yourself.
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gRegorLove Just my two cents
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KartikPrabhu don't see what it has anything to do with the Web. people can personal brand themselves in real life so whatever
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KartikPrabhu sparverius: me too... goes back to work... again
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@tedcurran The #Web We Have to Save - Medium https://medium.com/matter/the-web-we-have-to-save-2eb1fe15a426 #openweb #indieweb #socialmedia #blogs (twitter.com/_/status/621082124951552000)
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@mrazzari @manuelaristaran ya está para http://t.co/dVOheKrupH. "Cuando sea grande" lo puede pasar a self-hosted. #ownyourdata y eso (twitter.com/_/status/621087009176748032)
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aaronpk this is hilarious https://github.com/tessalt/echo-chamber-js
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aaronpk "Echochamber.js is a third-party script you can install to add a simple comment form to your blog post or website."
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aaronpk "why not just use disqus?"
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aaronpk "Because then there'd be a chance that someone would read the comments. You might have to read those comments. You don't want that.
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aaronpk "When a user submits a comment, echochamber.js will save the comment to the user's LocalStorage, so when they return to the page, they can be confident that their voice is being heard, and feel engaged with your very engaging content. It does not make any HTTP requests. Since LocalStorage is only local, you and your database need not be burdened with other people's opinions."
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KartikPrabhu lol :P
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kylewm FIRST!
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aaronpk so many firsts
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: fail!
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aaronpk hey what is the thing called where facebook autocompletes a person's name and makes a little tag thingy out of it
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KartikPrabhu auto complete?
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aaronpk i feel like there must be dozens of JS libraries that do it but i don't know what it's called
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aaronpk well it's more than autocomplete
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KartikPrabhu twitter also does that right?
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aaronpk not really
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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kylewm type-ahead?
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aaronpk it turns it into a little box
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kylewm aaronpk: have you seen the Tags form on https://kylewm.com/new
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kylewm s/form/field
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: aaronpk: have you seen the Tags field on https://kylewm.com/new
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aaronpk that is the thing
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aaronpk that is what i'm talking about
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aaronpk what is it called!
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "it called!" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=it+called%21&summary=prompted+by+aaronpk+https%3A%2F%2Fv17.ery.cc%3A443%2Fhttps%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-14%2Fline%2F1436914561458
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kylewm that widget in particular is http://aehlke.github.io/tag-it/
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kylewm i don't know the general name...
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snarfed1 aaronpk: contact chips
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snarfed1 i think
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aaronpk kylewm: cool I will use that one
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aaronpk on Quill
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aaronpk then I can stop sending a comma-separated list
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KartikPrabhu what will it send then?
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aaronpk an array
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KartikPrabhu is way out of date with micropub
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kylewm snarfed1: you definitely made up "contact chips"
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snarfed heh no it's the google name for it in gmail and other things
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aaronpk haha
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snarfed but maybe not as widespread as i thought
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aaronpk oh https://github.com/angular/material/issues/2333
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gRegorLove What about contact salsa?
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kylewm throws popcorn at gRegorLove
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kylewm boo
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GWG snarfed1: I'm seeing another discrepancy. You are using url= and the spec is calling for u=.
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snarfed GWG: ok!
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snarfed feel free to send a PR
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snarfed thanks!
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GWG snarfed: I will, after I read more and make sure I'm right.
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@actu_wordpress Vigil@nce - WordPress Indieweb Post Kinds : Cross Site Scripting: [Voter sur Blogonet] Ce bulletin a été rédig... http://www.globalsecuritymag.fr/Vigil-nce-WordPress-Indieweb-Post,20150713,54346.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/621106839808114688)